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Why buy studio edition?

just_in_case
Moderator
Quote
2022-07-14 20:23:56

I know that many people out there ask this question repeatedly that why they should purchase the studio edition.

the simplest answer is because it will give you the source code of the client exe.

and what's so special about the client source?

You can do things which you can't do with the editor or the normal game exe.

If you know C++, then you can simply extend your projects with advanced features like ragdolls, better physics simulations, extend the scripting API, create custom functions, Use third party libraries etc etc.


setting up the environment for C++ development with Coppercube is really simple.

you get the visual studio solution of Coppercube client which you can easily configure.
you need to install the directX sdk to your machine, and Include them in the project.
You need to remove or rename the <stdint.h> file so that you won't get any compile errors.

and you are ready to go, Add your own features and functions by modifying the code and by creating new files and libs.

if you know C++ programming, I encourage you guys to purchase the studio edition.

I don't know C++, but I am good in understanding any programming language and what's the code is doing.

and I was able to extend the javascript API with my own customised functions.

I've created an api that will, return the total bones(joint) count of an animated scenenode. another one for getting the name of the animated joint on the basis of bone index.

I was able to translate my cursor position on my screen.
and was able to lock it to the center of the screen even for Third Person Camera and other camera types like simple camera.

You can also create ragdolls and can also create an animator for CopperCube that will animate the rigged 3D models according to your preferences. it can be used to create animation independent head rotation. like rotate the head to the mouse position or towards the AI direction.

possibilities are many more... I highly recommend purchasing the studio edition if you know C++.

not only the animated joints and physics, you can do other things as well, like creating screenspace shaders... and many more..

hopefully this answers the FAQ why one should purchase the studio edition?

Cheers


kassonnade
Registered User
Quote
2022-07-14 20:59:49

Hi There

CopperCube is a cute little engine, very easy and lightweight. It also has many limitations for users who do not want to dive into modifying/ extending a game engine. Many will simply prefer a more popular solution like Unity or Unreal engines.

And speaking of those last two engines, there are no initial costs to use the "free" version, which already comes with the features that CopperCube hides behind the pro/ studio license costs, like post-processing and ability to play video files.

But 50$ + for a small game engine just to get features already present on more powerful engines for free ? I pass.

People can already make money with other game engines and will not pay until a certain amount is reached. The free versions support enough core features to allow developers to make up their minds about the capabilities of the engine, and they can test a market without paying a dime upfront.

Other things considered in the potential investment are the support and learning material, and marketplace, where tons of free content can be obtained to get started.


threedslider
Registered User
Quote
2022-07-14 22:27:44

Hi,

I have studio edition but in the past I didn't succeed to compile because of error from Visual studio 2017 C++... Though I have not to read in deep from source code so I will wait for VS 2022 will resolve it... And I hope then to learn it if it work as full program :)


sulbcon
Registered User
Quote
2022-07-15 01:17:33

Errr... For me any edition is not even an option because even the professional edition is almost my school fees while the studio edition is x3 my school fees and there is no way I can vomit that amount. That was why I said it would have been better if Ambiera used patreon instead...


just_in_case
Moderator
Quote
2022-07-15 08:36:33

I was not comparing the studio edition of CC, with big sharks of the gaming industry out there like Unreal, Unity, and others.

Every engine is unique in its own way, and they all have a different business model. Coppercube is really easy to use when it is compared to that of unity and unreal.

To be honest, the price tag in front of CC licensed version is there to support the developer, @niko is a lone wolf, while Unreal and Unity have a vast team working on their engine, you can expect more features and free stuff there, Epic games also giveaway many different gaming titles for free, does that mean every other game engine company should do the same, or follow the same business model.
regarding the price for Coppercube, you can always send a mail to @niko and generally, he gives you a discount and all.

CC is a great hobby tool and a beginner's tool who want to learn the basics of game development, You don't have to pay any royalties or other stuff for using it. The free version is already enough to get you started and get going.

For me, Coppercube is like a vintage car in a place full of modern cars.

Definitely, a vintage car has fewer features when compared to modern cars and is a bit more expensive than the cars currently on the market.

My post was never about the price concern, It is about things that you can do with the studio edition, and what makes it stand out from the other version of Coppercube.

I completely agree that the price is a big concern here, and I totally agree that there are not that much of tutorials available, and no marketplace.
And that's what I have been working on for the past few years, I have answered hundreds or maybe thousands of threads on the forums and questions on my Discord server.
I have been hosting a website https://neophyte.cf with quite a lot of assets for Coppercube and most of them are free.
I am trying to post videos on my Youtube Channel for the Tutorials and tips and tricks regarding Coppercube.

and I always encourage other members to do the same. and that's what I was trying to do here encouraging them to get the studio edition so that they can develop it and extend the engine capabilities. It is like open sourcing the engine without actually open-sourcing it. My motive was not to compare it with the business model of other engines and about the price concern. It was about what are the possibilities that you can achieve with the source code.

For a Discount please do send a mail to @niko, and there is always discount for students @sulbcon


regarding the visual studio errors, you can join my Discord server and I will help you how get rid of Compiling errors. Why Discord because we can have a real-time chat there.


sulbcon
Registered User
Quote
2022-07-15 09:02:16

Well I wasn't really getting mad at the price... Like you said @niko is a lone wolf... If I were him I would have opted for patreon no matter what. I wasn't even talking of me supporting(although I hope to support) because I don't have access to online transaction. As for engine, I have lots of other choices(Unity,Unreal,Flax,Stride,Everyone etc) and as for game development I am no beginner in 3d except for shaders. I just love this engine and believe it will be great very soon and want to contribute to it's greatness. Honestly that's the reason I'm here. Sorry for the long post.


count2rfeit
Registered User
Quote
2022-07-15 20:48:13

@just_in_case,

"It is like open sourcing the engine without actually open-sourcing it"

sorry, but that is just not true. Client source is not the same as the engine source... no one but niko can do anything to improve the game engine itself whereas open source would allow the community to help out...

of course, I'm not saying that is bad. niko has every right to protect and preserve what he created. I totally understand why he doesn't open source it.

All I'm saying is you shouldn't say things that might lead others to believe they can do things with the studio version they cannot. And for the money, I don't see the studio version doing that much - and actually, why would anyone who can program in C++ use an engine designed for "no coding" in the first place?

Well, just my opinion...


onceforloops
Registered User
Quote
2022-07-15 23:33:15

The first post in this thread was on line with exactly why I asked about the studio edition in the first place. I brought up the idea of buying the studio edition because I wanted to learn about the C++ code and get inside to see how things work in CC.
I will say this: I have a really good m2 NVME drive and Unity is slow as a turtle to load, code in youtube tutorials online are often outdated. I just use Unity for its asset store. It is Especially slow if there are a number of I assets I add to my project(s). The same for me with Unreal Engine 4/5. The Coppercube editor loads like lightning, and I can quickly and almost instantly access CC prefabs that I have created all over my PC.
I appologize if I opened a big can of worms for you guys to argue over, my bad...


just_in_case
Moderator
Quote
2022-07-16 07:24:57

@count2rfeit, I am not misleading anywhere, The line that you quoted is true, the game engine is opensource but the editor part isn't.

Have you ever tried the C++ source? The client source is the game engine source itself. The game engine that Coppercube uses is the irrlicht engine, which was founded by @niko himself and is already open source. Coppercube uses a modified version of the irrlicht engine and you do get the code with all the modifications.

The only code that is missing there is the editor code which is the "GUI" part. but the game engine source is already available in the client source. I don't consider the GUI as the game engine, maybe for you, the editor part is important.

In the client source, you will get everything that coppercube uses, Like you get the source of the physics engine, get all the behaviors and the scene nodes, you get all the import-export libraries for different 3D models and all.

And you can modify all of those things, you don't need the "GUI" editor code for that.

If you want you can create your own "GUI" and use it with the client source. There is everything available in the client source.

I don't know why you think that the things that I have mentioned in the original post are not possible with the client source.

While the client source itself has these things commented out very well.

I myself was able to extend the Javascript API being a stranger to C++, and I believe someone who knows C++, can bring more changes to the engine.

and in the future updates of Coppercube, My extended Javascript API's will get included as well.

and the compiler of the client source uses a coppercube project file to compile and run the game, which means it has all the game engine sources which are why it is able to compile a whole ccb file into a game.
If it wasn't the game engine source then it would never be able to compile the game out of a Coppercube Project file.

So my line that you quoted as not true, fits perfectly into the scene and is completely true. So " Yes it open-sourcing the engine without actually open-sourcing it"

The game engine is opensource, but the editor part is not.
You will be able to extend the game elements like, adding new behaviors, actions, javascript API, a new 3D renderer, a better physics solution, new scenenodes, and other things. But in order to push them to official Coppercube game engine, you need to ask @niko to add the modified or new code to the editor, so that others can benefit from it.

I will be going to create a video tutorial and will be going to show, that I am not shooting arrows in the empty space... and not misleading anyone when I say that you can do this with the C++ source that you get in the studio edition.

@onceforloops, This is the exact reason why I posted the original thread, because there is a misconception in people if they can get access to the engine source or not, the post was meant to clear out that misconception, Yes you can get to see and edit the source of the behaviors and actions and all, and can also learn how Coppercube is using them.

There is this huge misconception that they won't be able to do things with the client source, In the beginning, I was thinking the same during the days of CC5, when I entered the Community. That the client source will extend my game only, and it does that actually, so there is no profit of getting into that part, at that time @niko was pushing updates to CC really fast, and as a newbee I was learning the engine and I was also new to Javascript, I was learning that language. So I never got the chance to get into the client source.
But now as we are having very few updates to the engine and I have felt the javascript API is lacking many things that can be done by extending it. Then why shouldn't I ask @niko, If he can include those extended scripts and features in the future version of CC? and He agreed, he allowed me to extend the engine using the source and send them the modified files, and he will push them in the


just_in_case
Moderator
Quote
2022-07-16 09:49:35

future updates.

I have myself already created some javascript API like
 ccbSetMousePos(X,Y) 

this allows you to set the cursor location anywhere on the game screen.
Can be useful to create mouse guided tutorials in the game, for creating aimbot, for locking and unlocking the cursor to a specific position etc.

There are many other API commands I am creating and hopefully you will be able to see them in future updates of the engine as well.

Hopefully, the video I will record and post will clear out everything.


Alireza
Guest
Quote
2022-07-16 14:38:31

Coppercube is an engine that is much easier to learn than other big 3D engines.
With a short look and review, you can understand the relationship between its elements well. And don't forget that it offers a high frame rate export.
It is true that it still has some shortcomings, but I am sure that it will improve rapidly with the arrival of jast-in-case as a developer, as well as interaction with discord users.
So, the more people who have access to its client source, the faster its development will be. Maybe this engine doesn't have a good rating among game engines, but I'm sure we can improve its rating with each other help.
Anyone can help in any field. Engine development, information, creating tutorial, creating assets and even creating a good game? which itself can be a good advertisement for Engin..
For example, I can make different prefabs and models and present them to others


VP
Guest
Quote
2022-07-16 16:42:57

Personally, I don't see too much difference between the free edition, Pro edition and the studio version - other than the loading screen/post effects/client source-code.

-With the client source-code probably being the most significant feature.

I wanted to get a plain-text version/output of my project to make it easier to understand/develop it. Even just the Actio/Behaviour titles/headers would do but if you try to hack your coppercube game.exe with a toolset, although you can see certain things relating to the game, (for me) it's impossible to understand/work with/edit. With a client source-code, it probably still wont be plain-text (possibly not even with headers/notes) but I'd imagine it's much easier to work with. I wish there was a better description whichexplains exactly what the client-souce is. If it's a readable/plain-text version of the ccb file, I'd definitely buy the Studio Edition.

I know that the pro and studio versions definitely offer more potential for those who can script shaders and for those who can read/edit the client source code afterwards - with enough knowledge/dedication, you can pretty much see everything that goes on behind the scenes and can learn to do anything you want with Coppercube - things that aren;t natively available/apparent/accessible directly from the coppercube GUI.

I'm not a coder at all - so I have no real desire for the Studio Version yet. The main attraction for the Pro version was the ability to remove the "made with the free edition coppercube" and the few post-effects available.

After trying many other engines over a period of a few years, I settled on coppercube as I was capable of bringing more ideas to life at a much greater speed than with any of the other (more popular) engines - In fact, personally, I was unable to make a competed project at all using the other engines. In addition, coppercube seems fun to use - but as I say, that's just my personal experience as a non-coder - so it may not be relevant to most other people.

I was completely satisfied with the free versions of 5 and 6 - but I bought the Pro edition purely to support the development of the engine. It's possible that I may buy the Studio version in the future - either to support Niko or to explore Coppercubes capability in more depth - I'm not yet at the skill-level at all though.

Now, with the Pro version, even though I have the ability to change the loading-screen - to this day, I will still post my games/projects with the "Free Edition of Coppercube" watermark enabled, to promote the engine and show people that the free engine is fully capable - and I donlt really use the additional post-effects or shaders.

Basically, I'm more than happy with the free version but want to support development.

There are several changes and additions I would love to see incorporated into coppercube in the future - I'd be more than happy to pay for them - but Niko has done a great job already - even as it is today, the free version is a great little tool-set gem - fast and lightweight - with the potential for expansion through community presets/API development/simple scripting/plugins/Periodic Roadmap Developments with bug-fixes and feature updates.


just_in_case
Moderator
Quote
2022-07-16 17:37:32

@VP, you made it more clear thanks, I have also posted the video here that show how to compile the game with the C++ source code.

the C++ source code will be in plaint text and is well commented but for non coder and a person like me who is new to C++, it is elvish language, I am trying to figure out stuff that has been written in there.
In the video I also showcased the "ccbSetMousePos" API that I have created to translate the mouse position,
I also have created some other API's, that might help in the animation part of the model.
Like getting the current animation frame that is playing on the animated mesh, So that we can execute the actions on a more precise animation, like give damage on the last frame of the "kick" animation, and create a pause for the animated mesh in whatever frame it is and possibilities are many more.

Why I am interested in extending the Javascript API, because not everybody is comfortable with C++, but many people here are skilled in javascript and if there will be more API commands available for the javascript API, then I believe they can bring more extensions and upgrades, without having the need to update the engine.

That way the development of CC will get a boost and it will attract more users.

Here is the link to the YouTube video, My english is broken I hope you understand the things that I have been talking in the video.
https://youtu.be/PtLlcquFBx0


count2rfeit
Guest
Quote
2022-07-16 20:01:00

@just_in_case
your video was very informative... and you did point out about not getting the api's for the editor commands. Maybe you can also show what the .ccp file looks like when you open it in a text editor (notepad++) for anyone who doesn't know how it would look in plain text.

anyway, thanks... you really show how and what it takes to use the client code.


kassonnade
Registered User
Quote
2022-07-16 20:32:19

@just-in-case

I agree with that part of what @count2rfeit has written :

" And for the money, I don't see the studio version doing that much - and actually, why would anyone who can program in C++ use an engine designed for "no coding" in the first place? "

Now if you read my first post above with this in mind, you might better understand why I compared the other engines' philosophy/ marketing to CopperCube's.

I know that the interest in a game engine can have many facets : enhancing the engine, attracting contributors, or just use it to make games. At the end of the day, any engine is evidently a tool to make applications/ games. I will not argue against the value of contributing to any engine's development - I am only addressing the "making games/ applications" part. I have no interest in developing any engine, creating games is a lot of work already, and as I said CopperCube is a nice and simple tool for this.

But hiding parts of the "make games" aspect behind a price tag is my main gripe here. Source Code has no interest for me, and surely for lots of other enthusiasts, and like you wrote it is essentially the Irrlicht engine's source, with some customization.

There again, other engines already have these features available for free, and for anyone who is comfortable with scripting simple interactions and gameplay the amount of tutorials and information available on other platforms covers everything.

I also read on the CC forums somewhere that there is some concern about published games not being "secure" and that content can easily be retrieved...

Hats off to Mr. Gebhardt for all his work, and I wish him the best for the future. It's good to see people trying to keep his project going forward. And yes, @just_in_case, I already found all your scripts/ behavior and downloaded them hahaha ! ;)

Will just play around CopperCube free for now.


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