Ambiera ForumDiscussions, Help and Support. |
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I'd stopped using folders after noticing major problems with "Watchmaker'sFrog" game. I just started using folders again to neaten my work on my "Saboteur" game and immediately noticed the same bugs creeping in, completely breaking the game. Fortunately I was able to diagnose what's happening properly this time, why it happens and how to recreate the issue.... If any action references a scenenode, the reference is lost if the scenenode is subsequently moved (drag/dropped) into a folder - even if you move the node back out from the folder - the action's node-reference remains trashed. For example, if I have a cube-node called "Player" and, let's say a water-plane has the following action attached: Water.node>On Proximity: (sphere) radius 5>To "Player" node>Play Sound tada.ogg If I drag the water node into any folder, the action is automatically modified as the following: Water.node>On Proximity: (sphere) radius 5>To "Current Camera" node>Play Sound tada.ogg Obviously this breaks the game and requires manually fixing all the references (which can be a lot of work if you have a lot of nodes with actions and it makes you prone to more problems if you miss a single correction). This only happens when dragging/dropping a node into a folder - so a workaround is: 1- Always drag the node into the folder BEFORE you add any referenced actions. 2- Don't move nodes to a folder if you've already created any referenced actions. 3- If the nodes are already broken and you have no backup - you'll have to open every single folder, every node and edit every single action to re-target them manually. I fixed my game again using method 3, going through all the actions and manually regretting them, but it's a sneaky problem which will probably catch me again in the future. I may just go back to not using folders any more at all - just wanted to make you all aware. |
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Does this happen with every node or with the nodes that have been cloned and then moved to the folder, because has never happened with me, if it's a Proximity bug then maybe I can fix it, but if it's an editor bug then I can't be of any help. EDIT:-Just tried reproducing it but was not able to reproduce it, there is no change to the near to which scene node option and the behaviors remain intact. I tried with cloned nodes as well and the result is the same. maybe there is something else that you are doing there additionally or differently. Can you confirm the same is reproducible using the same method in a fresh project, Like creating a water node checking it's proximity with the player and then moving it to folder? I tried but nothing strange happened for me. |
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Thanks. Yeah, it seems to happen randomly - sometimes folder work, sometimes they glitch. Has happened a lot to me over the years - but maybe it's just me. Anyway - I've reproduced the problem and made a video of it for you. I converted it to a gif - I hadto speed it up to get the file-size small enough to host - hopefully you can see it happen? Although in this instance, I used just one folder and one node to demonstrate the problem - be aware that around 200 nodes were affected just by dragging one folder- I only noticed when it was too late to undo it. |
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Here's a link to the video file (hopefully).... https://mega.nz/file/KOY0QaibJH9... |
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I think another thing that gets affected is material settings: if you set "Transparent Alpha>Advanced>For Plant and Grass rendering" - it looks like it sometimes gets deselected by the same folder glitch. |
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this is definitely strange and probably a glitch, but is hard to reproduce for me, and maybe it will be hard to fix for Niko as well, maybe this is not related to the folder but is parent and unparenting from node to node. |
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Thank you Just_In_Case Yeah, it looks like a rat's nest of a problem and a bit random.... I noticed it's giving me problems with node positions as well - it's like it stores old values and at some point, if the node is in a folder, it somehow restores the old values. All my ladders were set to 0 on the x axis. At some point, many of them are at -28. -28 is the values I used when I first started the project a few days ago. I opened the backup and everything was 0 again- problem solved- but a few hours later, it glitched and the nodes were set to -28 again. Another problem I just spotted with folders is to do with on proximity events - If you set the proximity box for a node in a folder, then change the "Planar Coordinates for the Mesh", sometimes the "on proximity is set to 1,1,1. I have 47 ladders and it seems impossible to set their position and on-proximity events. Each time I think I've finished, I double check and find that the values have been changed. I seem to encounter weird bugs/glitches that don't affect other users - so it could just be a problem with my personal workflow; although I remember someone else encountering a similar problem of values and variables somehow being reverted back to older versions - I suggested maybe it was related to system hibernation, but in hindsight,maybe it was the same problem with folders. I'm not sure if the problem is with folders in general, of only folders within folders, or maybe it's triggered when moving folders around - or a combination of both - and maybe then ,it only affects nodes which have certain attributes - who knows. I think this would be a nightmare for Niko to fix but if it's just a simple case of not using folders, I'm happy with that solution. I've been a bit suspicious of folders for along time but now I'm convinced to ditch all my folders again. It's opened a can of worms for me and I've spent all yesterday and this morning chasing/fixing problems which keep popping up - I'm almost certain it's to do with me placing them all in folders. Only problem is,I'm scared that moving all the nodes out of folders may also trigger the same problem but I'll have to try because it's just impossible to work like this, lol. I'll delete the folders, save the project and keep a close eye on it to see if it addresses the issues. Thanks anyway appreciate the feedback. |
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Sorry - for multiple posts on this. Quick update - taking everything out of folders did trigger some glitches, most of the node positions are all screwed up again. I'll spend today fixing everything 100%, then I'll see how I get on now there are zero folders in the project - hopefully that'll fix it permanent. |
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Anyone know of any way to prevent position/rotation of nodes being changed when placing them into a folder please? I guess the only way is to place the nodes into the folder first, then set their position and rotation? Thanks. |
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Aha! I finally figured it out. The folder was a child by accident. When I moved the folder as a root node instead, doesn't seem to cause the issues with position/rotation/scale/on-proximity etc. any more. (phew) |
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Aaah sorry for late reponses, I am glad that you were finally able to reproduce the issue, and now it's clear why this happens. Folders in Coppercube are dummytrasformation nodes, means they are empty nodes but they have internally transformation properties. So when you make them children of a scenenode then they will inherit the relative position of their parent, and so anything that's inside the folders will also inherit the relative transformation. It is better not to make folders childrens of other scennodes that has transformation. You can make children of folders inside the folder. But I am glad that you figured out the issue, it was obviously very hard to capture this. |
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Nice one just_in_case. That's perfect. At least I understand now and don't need to be afraid of using folders any more. Thanks for explaining. |
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