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how to debug visual-scripting?

luposian
Registered User
Quote
2024-04-03 04:02:40

Blah. My lengthy reply was truncated, so it wasn't complete. Can't delete posts (only edit them), so... Wish I was warned that would happen, instead of wasting my time on a reply where about 50% of it was just lopped off into oblivion! My shorter version is below.


luposian
Registered User
Quote
2024-04-03 04:28:51

vp wrote:
"Pick a side of a fence?" That's quite a condescending thing to say.

I've been a coppercube user for around 5 or 6 years, I've DONE lots of projects (on my own, with no coding) but I do also find it very frustrating to use - so I frequently abandon my projects and move on to other things. That's not me being hypocritical, that's just honesty. I'm a hobbyist - not a pro. I give just as much help as I ask - sometimes I'm right/sometimes I'm wrong.

As you've decided to drag an itch.io convo onto here, yes, I did say I'm giving up on the Saboteur game because it was proving too difficult for my skills. I also announced that I'm giving up on Coppercube - so what? It's not for the lack of trying or doing, it's because it was becoming un-enjoyable.

Yes, Niko has responded to me by email to say that he's too busy with other projects to work on CopperCube at the moment. Not sure why you'd suspect I'm lying or why you assume you're the gold-standard but feel free to email him yourself if that will help to put your untrusting nature at ease. Niko was polite and respectful and explained that he's too busy to work on coppercube at the moment but maybe my requests will be added in the future.

It would be easy/quick for Niko to fix, as GUEST has proven with his recent plugins - but there have been thousands of requests from other users - it's Niko's baby, and he only has so much time to divide and which requests to prioritise.

CC updates which are slow and few-and-far-between. That's just the way it is - no point complaining - but it's enough to make me look elsewhere, albeit possibly just a temporary break. Many people have requested the source too, that's nothing new - it's not surprising to me that it's not been released publicly. If it ever does, that's great.

Thanks for your advice and recommendation that I shouldn't give up on coppercube - I already know that - but if I want to leave - or return, I shall - it's not a big issue, unless I get banned or asked to leave permanently by a mod or the regulars here.

I didn't intend to come across as crude or mean, but I am an all or nothing kinda person. I don't have hobbies... I have obsessions. I do a thing or I don't. I don't just do something until I'm bored... I do it until it's done. Period. Things don't usually beat me down to the point I'm giving up, because I will fight to complete a project or task, unless I am otherwise forced to stop -- which irritates me to no end. "I'm at my best, when I'm obsessed." That's my motto. But I work best that way. Give me a task, let me finish it, then let me go onto the next task. So my response to you was borne of that personality trait... I'm not a quitter and if I have reason to believe in someone else's work, I don't want to see them quit either!

So, what is the problem you're having with Saboteur? Take it one step at a time... step through the problem... I believe there is ALWAYS a solution, if you simply keep at it. I've gotten through all the problems I had with my game so far... I don't see why you can't also.


luposian
Registered User
Quote
2024-04-03 04:40:45

If you can't have things exactly the way you WANT them, then find a way to have things the way they'll WORK. It may be a compromise (and sometimes it turns out better than the original plan), but at least it will be a task completed.


VP
Guest
Quote
2024-04-03 11:27:16

No offense taken Luposian (well, a little bit if I'm completely honest - lol). You saw me give up on it twice because I had 2 versions - one uses a 2D controller and camera plugin by Just_In_Case. I was forced to give up that one because it was slowing down too much and was missing some features (which have probably since been added) but the physics simulation dependency was a killer. The second is a non-code (visual-code) version I made of the same thing. I gave up on that because it became impossible to track the thousands of variable interactions in my head and it was impossible to make simple changes due to the shortcomings of copperccube which are mentioned in this thread. It's not a case of giving up or sour grapes, it's a simple realisation that it's not possible for me to do. I'm not blaming coppercube, it's not a big deal. It's all good practice and learning, whether the project gets completed or not. The third iteration will contain Guests plugins - which will go a long way to help the project reach completion - or not - but I don't feel up to it at the moment. I find it interesting that you say you don't ever give up, but as I understand it, you haven't even started - you're just paying someone else to do it for you.


luposian
Registered User
Quote
2024-04-03 22:12:59

VP wrote:
No offense taken Luposian (well, a little bit if I'm completely honest - lol). You saw me give up on it twice because I had 2 versions - one uses a 2D controller and camera plugin by Just_In_Case. I was forced to give up that one because it was slowing down too much and was missing some features (which have probably since been added) but the physics simulation dependency was a killer. The second is a non-code (visual-code) version I made of the same thing. I gave up on that because it became impossible to track the thousands of variable interactions in my head and it was impossible to make simple changes due to the shortcomings of copperccube which are mentioned in this thread. It's not a case of giving up or sour grapes, it's a simple realisation that it's not possible for me to do. I'm not blaming coppercube, it's not a big deal. It's all good practice and learning, whether the project gets completed or not. The third iteration will contain Guests plugins - which will go a long way to help the project reach completion - or not - but I don't feel up to it at the moment. I find it interesting that you say you don't ever give up, but as I understand it, you haven't even started - you're just paying someone else to do it for you.

Ok, in each case, you're running into roadblocks. And trying to keep track of a bazillion different logic threads in the game does sound overwhelming.

But, even so, with my game, I also had roadblocks. In Stage 1, was where most of the help came from, the end of the game was different than I had envisioned. If you've watched the video of my gameplay, you'll see. Why? Because I couldn't figure out how to get it to work and no one was forthcoming with a solution. So I changed the ending slightly to make it work. And I actually like it MORE than the original ending I had planned.

I'm not paying someone to have EVERYTHING done. I'm doing as much of it myself, as possible. But I am not letting things like lack of financing stop me from completing it... it may be delayed but I will not let it be stopped. I will not give up on it.


luposian
Registered User
Quote
2024-04-03 22:34:25

The original ending for Stage 1 was going to be where you had to rotate 360 degrees at the top of the mountain before the last object appeared and if you didn't (and started climbing back down the mountain), Luposian would comment about that, so you'd go back up and do it (or figure out that you needed to do that). But given I couldn't figure out how to make that happen and no one was forthcoming on a solution, I decided to work with what I already knew and change the ending so you had to find the last hint (which originally did not exist) and THEN that transitioned into an automated sequence that ended Stage 1. And I like the alternate method more than the original one I had planned.

People may not like the supposedly boring "walk everywhere" pace of the game (in Stage 1 and Stage 2), but it is the way I've made it and I specifically designed it that way, because of Luposian's storyline of self-discovery. The two stages of the game are NOT that long (Stage 2, in particular, if you know the exact route to walk) and so walking is how it makes the game play longer. And, given the self-discovery nature of his storyline, it makes sense. He's in no hurry to get anywhere because he has no concept of time in this "dream realm". But in Stage 3, where he's going to be being pursued/attacked, he NEEDS to run!

I think this is getting off track (topic). I said all that to say that, even if you can't have things exactly the way you WANT them, be willing to strive to get them the way they'll WORK. It can be done.


veganpete.
Registered User
Quote
2024-05-27 14:07:18

@GUEST

Just out of interest, how would I do the following example, using your conditional action executor, please?....

If d1(variable) <> d2(variable) and d1(variable) <> d3(variable), then DoAction


I'm fairly sure that it can be done, just not sure how I should write it in the condition box. Thank you.


Guest
Guest
Quote
2024-05-27 22:25:44

@VP

Here's a version of the action that allows checking of variables against variables. Unfortunately, this means you need to use a sigil before the variable to denote that it is a variable ($a, $b, etc). Here's the link: https://files.catbox.moe/qn88i3....

Here's how you'd do it now:
🔎︎


I only had time to do a little checking with it. Let me know if you get any errors or need help with anything else. Cheers.


vp
Guest
Quote
2024-05-27 22:33:05

Perfect! Thanks again Guest. I'll add it to an itch.io page - I think itch is down at the moment.


Guest
Guest
Quote
2024-05-27 22:42:32

Wait. No. I am working on it. There's an issue.


Guest
Guest
Quote
2024-05-27 23:49:59

This one should work properly. The original intent of this script, I guess, was to check each condition in a chain and fire the actions each time that it returned true or false. The inclusion of "and" means that all the conditions need to be either all true or all false and then fire the action once only. This script should do that. Just to clarify: now each condition is expected to be all true or all false. Hopefully, I got this right. Test it out and let me know if you find any issues.

https://files.catbox.moe/yn2xeh....


vp
Guest
Quote
2024-05-28 07:26:02

Excellent work Guest! I'll test the latest version today with my dice/card game. There are a lot of variable conditions required to calculate double/tripple score-combinations with the 3 dice.

I really appreciate this. Thanks you.


VP
Guest
Quote
2024-05-28 12:38:37

Works like a charm! So pleased with this @Guest; huge time-saver and also will allow me to do things, with ease, that would have been way to complex for me to even consider before. A million thanks.


Guest
Guest
Quote
2024-05-28 19:47:22

Glad to hear it's working out for you, @VP. If you notice where any improvements can be made, please let me know. Good luck on your project!


veganpete.
Registered User
Quote
2024-05-28 21:50:50

Nice one {b]Guest[/b]Thank you!


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