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My review and warning to newbie game developers.

darinm1967
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-09 18:36:57

Just finished following the extremely short tutorial from both Coppercube and also from Gamesfromstratch. Both tutorials work flawlessly, unfortunately I cannot say the same thing for Coppercube custom animated meshes, at least not .fbx ones from the latest Blender 3D. Bringing up the Animation Editor in Coppercube is easy enough, once you figure out where it is that is. Also naming all of the separate animations for the custom animated mesh is easy too! Unfortunately, once you set up it's behavior to use one of its animations as an act, then running your game the enemy with the custom mesh will freeze complete after performing its attack animation, and will only respond to being killed with the correct animation BTW. No damage is deducted even though "Shoot" was setup correctly. I've tested this bug on numerous different .fbx mesh and it always happens the same way. Reviewing the forums for a solution brings up a possible fix which is to set up the enemy to restart it's behaviors when it attacks, but this doesn't fix the problem. Also reviewing the forum extensively it's been reported, for years now that the built in behaviors are un-optimized and buggy. I can attest to the later, even though I never got far enough after two days of try to resolve this issue, save coding a brand new behavior in javascript. I can say that the idea of this engine is a great one, but like so many low priced and not so low priced, they often come up very short on delivering. If you want to only use the rather tiny selection of enemies available in Coppercube, or are willing to buy or create your own Javascript behaviors from scratch than this maybe a good option, but there are a lot of forum posts about bad performance when more than a handful of enemies are in play. Also there is no loading enemies or objects from file either, so games will have to contain all objects in initial loading, which can put a damper on keeping game file size and initial loading times small. If on the other hand someone who isn't very knowledgeable or experience coding in Javascript and/or wants to use their own or purchased animated meshes you might as well stick with Unreal, Unity, or Godot which is completely free. Coppercube like Gameguru, and S2Engine advertise newbie friendly, but I can tell you after using all of them and trying to build the exact same simple fps, none of them deliver. Perhaps whenever CC 6.7, or CC 7 comes out, I'll give it another go.


Guest
Guest
Quote
2023-11-10 00:37:57

🔎︎



john123
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-10 08:25:03

What's worse, CopperCube was paid, and very expensive a while ago, is not scalable, have a weak graphics system, just think about it, I remember that the S2 Engine was paid also, I dont remember it had a free version, GameGuru but looks heavy I don't remember if I tested it, I don't think so, but FPS Creator yes, I've spent money on programs before, but in the end it was more for fun and a waste of time than something serious, the market is saturated and its done, even if I were able to produce something good, it wouldn't be that good because I don't know how to program or it would take a lot of time, doesn't mean it would be worth the value and effort and time spent. I saw that it is easier to play old games than to spend money on buying new ones and spending on hardware, or trying to develop something new, there is lots of abandonwares or emulators or "alternative" versions, or free games, etc.

I'm coming to the conclusion that software and games should be free, and if not, there are many out there that are free and are good enough, both as software and games.

And if someone wants something really serious, they must know how to program, and for this they need to use at least the Godot engine, which has a lot of graphic quality and is not heavy, unlike Unity or Unreal.

CopperCube only serves as an entry point for learning, anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Them someone can say, "ohh, but that famous game was made on it", certainly the guy knew a lot about coding, which invalidates the talk about easy development.


okeoke
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-10 10:02:17

How about just passing a js course? this one for ex:https://www.codecademy.com/learn.... It's free and estimated for 20 hours. You can learn it in a week if you don't waste your time playing old n64 cr*p and nagging on the forum.


Guest
Guest
Quote
2023-11-10 19:11:19

@john123, if games and software should be free.

Then how the developer is going to earn?


luposian
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-10 21:39:01

wrote:
What's worse, CopperCube was paid, and very expensive a while ago, is not scalable, have a weak graphics system, just think about it, I remember that the S2 Engine was paid also, I dont remember it had a free version, GameGuru but looks heavy I don't remember if I tested it, I don't think so, but FPS Creator yes, I've spent money on programs before, but in the end it was more for fun and a waste of time than something serious, the market is saturated and its done, even if I were able to produce something good, it wouldn't be that good because I don't know how to program or it would take a lot of time, doesn't mean it would be worth the value and effort and time spent. I saw that it is easier to play old games than to spend money on buying new ones and spending on hardware, or trying to develop something new, there is lots of abandonwares or emulators or "alternative" versions, or free games, etc.

I'm coming to the conclusion that software and games should be free, and if not, there are many out there that are free and are good enough, both as software and games.

And if someone wants something really serious, they must know how to program, and for this they need to use at least the Godot engine, which has a lot of graphic quality and is not heavy, unlike Unity or Unreal.

CopperCube only serves as an entry point for learning, anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Them someone can say, "ohh, but that famous game was made on it", certainly the guy knew a lot about coding, which invalidates the talk about easy development.

But... you're leaving! You're fed up with Coppercube! You hate the very idea of programming. If it's not made/done for you, you whine and cry and complain like a spoiled toddler!

Please, just go and leave us to enjoy what we have and make use of it, alright? You said you were leaving, so... GO!

Or shut up, put on your big boy pants, and make something with Coppercube! But stop your incessant whining!

The least you could do is at least complain about something entertaining... like how horrible my game is or how awesomely wonderful LykoFrank is! But stop bashing CopperCube... unless you can make a better 3D game engine.


luposian
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-10 21:44:33

wrote:
How about just passing a js course? this one for ex:https://www.codecademy.com/learn.... It's free and estimated for 20 hours. You can learn it in a week if you don't waste your time playing old n64 cr*p and nagging on the forum.

Yeah, John123 could definitely learn a thing or two from a video like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=...




SamGrady
Guest
Quote
2023-11-11 11:40:56

john123
which invalidates the talk about easy development

As a 3D modeler, I use JavaScript in CopperCube because it's much easier and allows me to bring to life anything I can imagine. If you find programming challenging, I would advise reconsidering game development. If grasping basic syntax is already a significant hurdle, creating something, even with the blocks of actions and behaviors in CopperCube, might challenging you.


okeoke
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-11 19:38:56


Yeah, John123 could definitely learn a thing or two from a video like


not every person is unteachable


luposian
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-11 20:49:41

wrote:

Yeah, John123 could definitely learn a thing or two from a video like


not every person is unteachable

Hehehe! Definitely!


darinm1967
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-13 05:55:55

Just popped in out of curiosity to see if anyone replied to give constructive criticism or to perhaps correct my possibly incorrect observations. Only two people kind of tried, I think to give me some advice, luposian and okeoke, but nobody got the point of my review. It was a review in response to Ambiera's advertisment on Steam which starts with:

"CopperCube is a full-featured 3D game engine. No programming needed! Create 3D games and apps quickly."

I left my review there too, so newbies have an review that reflects it's current state. luposian and okeoke, if I wanted to go through the time and effort of learning a programming language to create a game, so I could my custom and store bought assets, why wouldn't I just use Godot, which offers the same features, is constantly being improved and updated frequently and is and will always be completely free? Also, I didn't single out CopperCube. If anyone wishes too go and look up the other engines Gameguru Classic, and S2Engine, who also advertise "no programming needed" you will see I left my reviews there too! I was only able to actually finish simple fps game in one of the engines and that was GameGuru Classic, and I was really only able to do it because it has a larger more extensive list assets right out of the box. Also it's behaviors while not very optimized actually worked, and had far more speed, responsiveness, and varied animations than Coppercube's. Since Coppercube was an older engine, I gave it a lot of slack and didn't expect speed, but there is a long list of bugs that have been reported on this forum that have not been fixed in years! Additionally, if Ambiera wants to advertise that their engine doesn't require "programming" than they should make sure that the available "behaviors" are varied, work out of the box, and are fairly optimized so that newbies and most importantly potential buyers, get what's advertised. Also from the responses I've received on this post and many request for help that I've read going back a couple of years, it would appear that this forum is hostile to newbies, which also does Ambiera no good services. Most newbies that come to this and Steam's forums believed the "no programming needed!" advertisement and are sincerely looking for help, reporting a bug, or are confused about a missing feature. They are not the enemy, yet many respond with attitudes like they are! If Ambiera wants any chance of making Coppercube popular than they need to fix their engine, and behaviors to do what their advertising and do something about this hostile forum, like kicking out the rude and arrogant posters who think their doing Ambiera a favor by their rude Gate Keeping. Finally, to John123, I see and understand your perspective and trust me I feel your frustration, but IMHO I don't think it's fair to expect small companies and individual developers/publishers to just give away their hard work. Developing post 1990s video games and game engines is a monumental task. Just the coding alone is crazy difficult. If it was easy than there wouldn't none programmers looking for game engines that don't require programming. Heck even Armory3D, Unity, and Unreal which have the ability to program behaviors without writing a single line of code, still require a lot of work figuring out how each node, a.k.a. behavior object works together to produce something as simple as Top/Down perspective. Visual or textural it still requires learning to program an action or a reaction. Programming is breaking things down in to tiny steps which the computer can understand and repeat. Computers are dumb, dumb, dumb, and while ChatGPT / Bing are smarter than they have ever been, they are still very dumb. Anyway, I've said my piece and hopefully, I've helped a few newbies have a better idea of what their getting themselves into using Coppercube and coming to it's forum. Perhaps once Ambiera reads these posts their realize that I'm not the enemy and really do want them to be successful. They just need to


okeoke
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-13 08:41:18

why wouldn't I just use Godot, which offers the same features, is constantly being improved and updated frequently and is and will always be completely free?


As a big Godot fan myself I can name a number of reasons to use CCB:
1. godot natively uses gdscript, which is a language exclusive to godot. And JS, which is used by CopperCube is currently the most versatile pl of them all. You can do web with it, both frontend and backend, you can make desktop apps using electron, or newer stuff like neutralino, for ex. You can make games using phaser or coppercube, you can do QA/web scrapping or bots with puppeteer or playwright. So you can actually get a lot of value from learning JS, there you can only use GDScript with Godot. You can say that Godot also uses C with mono, but no one really uses it and there much less documentation/tutorials + it's much less stable.
2. It's faster to develop simpler stuff with coppercube. Just try to set up a simple scene: ground, fps camera, throw couple of objects, and measure how much time it will take for you to make it with both engines. It will be 30 seconds in ccb there in godot you will have to actually code movement, set up nodes structure, setup collision shapes and etc.
3. Coppercube is much more beginner friendly - just compare API docs: https://www.ambiera.com/coppercube/doc/cnt_javascriptref.html vs
https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/classes/index.html
Godot could be overwhelming for a beginner.

But overall, Godot is obviously a much better engine. It's has a better rendering pipeline and much, much, much more functionality. Coppercube is just faster for prototyping demoes, and has a lower entrance threshold.


okeoke
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-13 08:44:19

Ambiera wants to advertise that their engine doesn't require "programming" than they should make sure that the available "behaviors" are varied

Says who? In my world you can make games without programming using it. VP made a lot of them that way. There are also demoes on just_in_case's site which show how it could be done. It's just easier to achieve the same results using coding.


okeoke
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-13 08:51:14

Computers are dumb, dumb, dumb, and while ChatGPT / Bing are smarter than they have ever been, they are still very dumb.

People are even dumber. The same day AI learns how to make games from text prompt there will be some posting "didn't work. the game is not what I want", since they are unable to put their thoughts together and come up with a proper prompt.


darinm1967
Registered User
Quote
2023-11-14 00:36:11

okeoke, if you believe that you are helping Ambiera's case, by arguing from the perspective of a experience Coppercube/Javascript programmer, you are only proving my case that this forum is hostile to Newbies. My posts are to a specific audience and you are not one of them. It is obvious you support and program in Javascript, most newbie game developers who come here aren't. Often they come because of Ambiera's claim:

"Create 3D games without programming. It's free."

"No programming!"

"You can create games and apps without programming."

These are directly on Coppercube's main website at https://www.ambiera.com/coppercube/

Now, you did make some good arguments about why a newbie game developers who is either familiar with programming and especially Javascript, over Godot's scripting language, but my review wasn't for them either. In regards to your rebuttal about assessment that if Ambiera want's more newbie, non-programmer customers they need to provide more varied, bug-free, and optimized behaviors, Your rebuttal was pointing out that there are "demos" on the internet that people have created using Coppercube without programming. That maybe true, but where are they? Also, Ambiera isn't promoting "You can create demos and proto types without program." They specifically use the word "create games" which is a whole lot more complex and involved more than a extremely limited "game jam" demo to impress ones friends. I will concede that there are plenty of simple, extremely limited "games" that can be created in Coppercube, but most newbies don't want to make another version of space invaders, asteroids, bumper cars, tiny racer, etc. Most people who come here want to make something a little more sophisticated with custom 3D animated assets. I myself have literally 10s of GBs of 3D animated and static meshes, sounds, music, most of which I bought over the years, that I would love to actually import into Coppercube, but it can't even do that with it's current broken behaviors. Now, if Ambiera wants to add thousands of 2D/3D Animated/Static meshes, sounds, music, particle effects, into their engine, then it wouldn't matter for a lot of people that they can't use their own, but that would be a be investment into this engine when all they have to do is fix their broken, unoptimized behaviors and add more of them. Again, my review is for newbie non-programmers, not to coders, who have invested a lot of time and effort learning Coppercube's systems and know them inside and out. I'm not going to repost anymore because okeoke has proven my point that this is a hostile forum, where giving out sincere assessments/review of Coppercube's short comings will only get you labeled a troll and harassed by fanboy's. I wish Ambiera success, but if this is how newbies are treated, I wouldn't count on it.


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